Saturday, May 10, 2008

Muslim creationist Adnan Oktar sentenced to 3 years in prison

There have always been questions about the finances of the organization run by Adnan Oktar, known usually by his pen-name Harun Yahya. Last year he made headlines by sending his 800 page Atlas of Creation, free of cost, first to French public schools and then to biology and anthropology departments across the US. The science (if you call it science), of course, is lifted from the US creationists, but the printing quality is fantastic (I recently acquired a copy from an anthropologist at UMass). Hmm...how does his organization finance itself? Well, the news is that Adnan Oktar has now been sentenced to 3-years in prison "for creating an illegal organization for personal gain" (tip from Secular Outpost).

Oktar had been tried with 17 other defendants in an Istanbul court. The verdict and sentence came after a previous trial that began in 2000 after Oktar, along with 50 members of his foundation, was arrested in 1999.

In that court case, Oktar had been charged with using threats for personal benefit and creating an organization with the intent to commit a crime. The charges were dropped but another court picked them up resulting in the latest case.

It is not clear how it will impact his movement. He is certainly the most prominent creationist in the Muslim world. His books (probably written by a pool of authors) are widely available in different languages and his organization has made "science" documentaries defending his brand of creationism that run frequently in Muslim countries (in fact, daily on one of the channels in Pakistan). I hope his finances gets disclosed but there is also a potential of the Turkish government turning him into a martyr. Stay tuned.

44 comments:

Don said...

Firstly, congratulations on the picture. It gives him a Miami Vice-esque vibe, perfect for the stuff he's peddling.

Secondly, I'm not betting on much in the way of change. No single man is Harun Yahya, although Oktar was the physical figurehead for the (conjectured) writing collective. To continue the 1980's pop culture references, I think they should create a Max Headroom-style digital avatar for Harun Yahya and leave it at that. An artificial character with little connection to the natural world to fit an artificial ideology with little connection to the natural world.

Salman Hameed said...

Ha! Yes, I did smile when I found that picture. I do like the idea of his 80's style avatar - and then he can more successfully argue that (second)-life is (probably?) designed by some form of intelligence.

Marina said...

I fully support television programming dramatizing the seedy underbelly of the creationist mafia, with or without digital avatars. HBO might be interested...

ungtss said...

Nobody seems to notice or care that the story doesn't include any facts regarding what exactly he is alleged to have done.

Don said...

@ ungtss: I think everyone is wondering about particulars, but (like you) we only have access to what's available online. Hopefully there will be more detailed news soon.

ungtss said...

Don:

Agreed. In the mean time, I'd hope we'd all suspend judgment. Turkish courts are not known for being particularly fair, and Oktar's views put him at odds with both radical muslims (calling for tolerance and stating that the Quran commands letting the Jews have the land of Israel) + secularists (questioning the sacred cows of materialism + common descent).

Anonymous said...

thank God.

because God does not like & protect cruel impostors.

josefnohra said...

ungtss said...
Nobody seems to notice or care that the story doesn't include any facts regarding what exactly he is alleged to have done.

That is because he has done nothing.
You can learn the details on
http://www.bav-savunma.org/

Anonymous said...

Do you know that he is well known by his swarm of younger girlfriends?

ungtss said...

Anon:

First off, he wasn't convicted of having a swarm of girlfriends, so that's irrelevant to this thread except insofar as it shows you're trying to smear the guy.

Second, I keep hearing all these irrelevant, unsubstantiated allegations, and seeing violations of basic principles of legal due process (like Double Jeopardy and retroactively effective laws) but nobody's shown me any evidence?

Allegations without evidence may work in your neighborhood, but not in mine.

josefnohra said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
josefnohra said...

Ungsst did you check the site
http://www.bav-savunma.org/ ????

shilon said...

http://psychologicalwarfaremethods.com/

check this site on OKTAR. Intresting

nadime said...

Here is what Adnan Oktar (Harun Yahya)saying about court decision on his official website
http://harunyahya.com/new_releases/news/courtverdict.php

EXCERPT FROM ADNAN OKTAR’S PRESS CONFERENCE AFTER HE WAS SENTENCED OF 3 YEARS PRISON

ADNAN OKTAR: This is a case that will probably go down in history. I have never heard of, seen or read of such an intriguing case. But we still feel the appropriate respect.

We respect the justice system. We respect the court verdict. There is something auspicious in all things. That verdict had been determined in the sight of Allah before those judges’ parents were even born. They issued the statement when the time came. They issued the statement that was in their destiny. Nobody can decide for himself, nor make any statement of his own volition. Everyone makes the statements determined in their destiny. Why did it happen in that way? Because it was auspicious for it to do so.

As with Prophet Yusuf (as). He was a servant beloved of Allah. Yet Allah had him thrown into a dungeon for seven years. InshaAllah, we are also on the path of the Prophet Yusuf (as). We are on the path of the blessed prophets. We abide by their excellent sunnah. InshaAllah we are doing what is auspicious. Believers are on the path of the prophets, and in the Qur’an, Allah says He wills us to adopt them as role models. He tells us to obey and resemble them. And our lives may have aspects similar to aspects of theirs. These verses of the Qur’an apply to all Muslims. In that sense they also apply to me and to my colleagues. In verse 35 of Surah Yusuf, for example, He reveals: “Then, after they had seen the signs, they thought that they should still imprison him for a time.” The verse suggests there were doubts whether to imprison him or not, but that the former option eventually prevailed. There is indeed a similarity here. Allah says of Yusuf (as) that he was sentenced to at least three years’ imprisonment. The Qur’an refers to several years. That means at least three, somewhere between three and nine. That is a sign. The Qur’an applies to all times, all people and all events, and this is one of the miracles of the Qur’an.

Nobody can hurt me anywhere in any way; only things that my Creator, Almighty Allah, wills to happen actually do so. I shall live by my destiny. Whatever is in my destiny, that is what will happen. The time will come when my soul is taken. When that time comes, He will take my soul. But apart from that, nobody can harm a hair on my head. Nothing can happen to me. Whatever is in my destiny, it will happen when the time comes, at the appointed time.

In the latest events, the latest bit of pressure, we learned that someone we never expected, whom we believed to be a conservative, religious individual, was in fact a Freemason. We were stunned. We really thought he was a devout, right-wing individual, and we trusted him accordingly. But he turned out to be a high-ranking Freemason.

There are eight letters [from foreign Freemasonry], sent here to the [Turkish] lodge. They refer to us, and to me personally, making direct reference to my book, to Atlas of Creation. They refer to my ability to operate without difficulty. They ask how this is possible, how I can enjoy such freedom of action.

They say it [the Atlas] has had a huge impact, like an atom bomb. That is what lies behind the pressure being put on us in recent years. We are even of the opinion that pressure is being put on the government to put pressure on us. I can understand why the end of Darwinism has upset them so much, because this has really demolished their entire system. Their philosophies, world views and ideologies have been shattered. And they are unable to find an answer to this. All they can do is pressurize.

We received a new threat regarding my latest book [on Freemasonry] only yesterday, directed against myself, for the book not to come out; it came from the Freemasons, who phoned a friend of mine. They suggested we would have real problems if the book comes out. But I shall nevertheless be bringing the book out, inshaAllah. I have been threatened before, when I was in the mental hospital. I was told to abandon my activities. At that time they both offered me money and also said they would “get rid of this problem” I was having, and they had my lawyer bring me the message. They offered me a substantial sum of money if I would abandon my work, give up producing books, put a stop to my book regarding Freemasonry, and that the nightmare I was experiencing would be brought to an end. But I declined the offer.

Let me state once again that I have no complaints regarding the court. I harbor no resentment or recrimination towards anyone. It is Allah Who caused the court to sign that verdict. Only one thing in the court decision surprised me and gave me pause for thought, which was that we had three female friends. Like my other friends, they had absolutely nothing to do with the allegations. But they were sentenced to three years’ imprisonment each. These were really well brought-up young ladies. That did surprise me. But again I still respect the court, and there is something auspicious in all things.

ungtss said...

Nadime:

Thank you for the letter from him. But it still doesn't answer the key question -- what did they actually allege he did, and what evidence did they bring against him at trial? Nobody on either side seems to be willing or able to answer this question.

anti-crusader said...

this must be a highly skillful "defense story" here?

= comparing himself with
prophet Joseph???

= freemasons attacking him for the "superior work" he did???

= being an "unjustly persecuted" humble religious hero???

perhaps thus a wolf trying to come to us in sheep's clothing?
let us remove the sheep's clothing here a little bit then, and see the wolf under it, if we open our eyes.

====================

to see and better understand

= the Evolutionary Creation concept, and its related Quranic and Scientific credible many evidences;

= the dark influence of Gnostic and Evangelical (= MESSIAH DAJJAAL) Crusader ideologies behind this fanatic "anti reality" and "anti evolutionary"
pseudo-religious doctrines.

= the worldwide hidden cultural and political "Crusader" agenda behind this "anti reality" and "anti evolutionary" tirade.

and much more very critical informations, please visit the web site below

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/04/07/harun-yahyas-islamic-creationist-book-pops-up-in-scotland/

and see all the comments by

"Musa-Moses,"
then "Evolutionary Creation,"
then "Evangelism Exposed,"
especially starting at --May 11, 7:28--
and then continuing downwards to the end,
at the comments section.

may God protect all of us from all the "religious heroes"
who are "made in USA" and
who are "paid in USA."

----------

God only always protects what "really" belonged to Him, in the first place. (Anfaal 30 & Nisaa 141)

anti-crusader said...

and you should also see this
video, to better understand
the "wolf under sheep's clothing"
issue. and how some --worldwide-- respected Islamic Scholars may have already exposed this "wolf" and warned the believers rightfully against his crooked Crusader influenced ideology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-vdG6MdXV0&feature=related

ungtss said...

crusader hater: fine -- but what did oktar actually DO?

anti-crusader said...

Ungtss, maybe you can go to these addresses and begin your search
for yourself from there,

http://whoisharunyahya.wordpress.com/paranoid-cult-leader-harun-yahya/

http://whoisharunyahya.wordpress.com/harun-yahya-or-adnan-oktar-the-promised-mahdi/

and if you know turkish, you can access many more sites that would show you the "ugly face" of this
"nice guy" and his cruel gang.

but i am not basically interested in his other alleged "pervert activities."

what bothers me most is the fact that he is copying the Gnostic & Evangelical USA Crusaders' crooked
fanatic Anti-Reality & Anti-Evolutionary ideas and then misleading the believers by them.
only in this area i can hopefully help show the "wolf" nature
of this "sheep" clothed
puppet con-artist, to all the sincere believers.

take care. i am leaving...

ungtss said...

My friend anticrusader, neither of those sites, nor any other I can find, state the illegal actions oktar was convicted of. Allah is just. He would not have a man convicted of unknown crimes. Justice requires that the facts of the crime, and the evidence supporting it, be available for inspection.

anti-crusader said...

friend Ungtss, perhaps you are a little bit looking at this issue basically only from a lower (= humanly) perspective here,
and if i am totally correct,
then you can go to this turkish site and learn about all the "humanly" allegations etc. he is accused of (but if you do not know turkish, i am sorry but i do not know any english version of it yet):

http://webarsiv.hurriyet.com.tr/2000/01/12/171331.asp

but this is not my basic viewpoint here, because i am trying to look at this issue from also a little bit higher (= heavenly) perspective here.

and in this regard, what you said above:

"Allah is just. He would not have a man convicted of unknown crimes."

i totally agree with you.
for that reason i am only trying to show the heavenly "crimes" he may have committed against God and His many righteous believers here;
because in the Scripture it is clearly stated that:

----------
who is more Evil than the one who fabricates lies and attributes them to God (Allah),
or says: I have received divine inpiration.... (6/93)
----------

= this guy may basically be fabricating Gnostic & Evangelical influenced fanatic "anti-reality" and "anti-evolutionary" lies and attributing them to God (Allah),
and then he says: "these are divinely inspired to him by God (Allah)..."
(** he and his followers are implying in many places that he is a Mahdee acting under Allah's inspiration,
though in reality he may only be acting under his Evangelical Crusader Masters' manipulation.)

and based on these lies he is accusing with every kind of evil (= murder & racism & fascism etc.)
many innocent theist or atheist or agnostic etc. peaceful people on earth, who are truly seeking to understand the Big bang and Evolution(ary Creation) and Reality of Matter etc. issues by working sincerely on it together,
as may have thus been provoked & inspired to him by his Evil
Gnostic and Evangelical Crusader Masters, for the sake of being a
-fake- religious Hero just like them!

he even praises "anti-reality" delusional (who basically claim that matter does not exist, only mind exist) Crusader people as "strong believers"
and utterly despises all the others,

he even commends "anti-evolutionary" delusional (who basically claim that humans are instantly & anti-evolutionarily created perfect Godlike!! beings) Crusader people as "strong believers" and utterly despises all the others,

and these may all be among BIGGEST EVILS and CRIMES in the eyes of God (Allah), (14/19 X 52/15-16)
(71/13-14 X 5/17-18)
and God (Allah) can also punish these kind of delusional "Crusader Puppets" by using his all kind of creatures on earth, when He wills so. (10/66 & 48/7 & 6/65) (7/30 & 74/11-17)

and our God (Allah) may sometimes also work in a little bit
"allegorically-encased" Wondrous Ways in this world;
for example if such an evil "Crooked Guy" is accused of

= Drug possession;
perhaps it may absolutely be "not so wrong" in His eyes,
not because he possessed cocaine etc.
but because he possessed "Crusader Lies" (= real Drug),

= Theft;
perhaps it may absolutely be "not so wrong" in His eyes,
not because he stole someone's property
but because he stole some "Godly truths" (= some other miraculous scientific statements of the Scripture which have been revealed to many other humble & decent believers, which he himself never worked for it)
and then took them and mixed it up (like Samaritan in the Scripture) with his false "anti-reality" & "anti-evolutionary" Crusader Agenda.

and etc. this may be a long and very deep subject, as you may see.
only our God (Allah) knows best and acts in the most rightful manner in these situations. we are not in the position of acting in these situations. perhaps we can only deeply thank our God (Allah) that He prevented & turned away the Evils of such Crusaders from His sincere & peaceful creatures
--believers or/and non-believers--worldwide.

for this reason i urge all the sincere believers here to go and see all the very critical comments & informations given by

"Musa-Moses,"
and then "Evolutionary Creation,"
and then "Evangelism Exposed,"
and then evangelical "Intelligent Disguise,"

at this site,
beginning from --May 11, 7:28--
at the comments section:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/04/07/harun-yahyas-islamic-creationist-book-pops-up-in-scotland/

about these MESSIAH DAJJAL CRUSADER ideologies,
and truly recognize these WOLWES who have been trying to come to believers under SHEEP'S clothing for a long time (at least 150 years) by now and worldwide.

and i also urge all the other
--believer or/and non-believer-- peaceful people on earth to beware of all kind of Evils these CRUSADERS and their puppets may commit against all humanity in the Name of God.
because if someone are really "Evil" but they think that they are really "Godly Heroes" (7/30)
can there be any limit to their Evils then, which they will surely commit, after "legalizing" it in the eyes of their false Religion,
such as:

= Invasion (under the disguise of Liberation)

= Theft (under the disguise of legitimate Confiscation)

= Rape (under the disguise of lawful Concubine Relation)

= Murder (under the disguise of Defense against Terrorism)

and so on and on...

take care again. i am truly leaving...

ungtss said...

Friend Anticrusader: thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate the opportunity to learn from your heavenly perspective. I don't know enough about him and his group to know whether he is as blasphemous against Islam as you say -- so I will take your word. However, he wasn't convicted of blasphemy -- he was convicted of forming an organization for criminal purposes. If he committed that crime, I'm curious about what he did. If he did not commit that crime, then he was wrongly convicted of a crime he did not commit. If he is guilty of blasphemy, then he should be charged with that, and evidence should be brought to prove it in court. But he should not be convicted of a crime he did not commit to punish him for a different crime. What do you think?

anti-crusader said...

friend Ungtss, you said:

----------
But he should not be convicted of a crime he did not commit
to punish him for a different crime. What do you think?
----------

of course, who can disagree with you on this?
every criminal should only be
convicted and punished with the crime he really committed.
but whether this matching should be in "real sense" in humanly perspective, or in "allegorical sense" in heavenly perspective
can only be decided by God (Allah).
we cannot know it for sure, only He can know it and acts rightfully
on every occasion, at everytime, whenever He wills so.

anyway, we should also always stay respectful to each other's religious or non-religious views/beliefs,
perhaps we should only be angry sometimes against Crusader mantality who wants to impose their views upon all humanity as if they are absolute MESSIAHS or MAHDEES...
and if i overreacted above, in this regard, please forgive me.

take care again. and let me truly leave this time...

ungtss said...

friend anticrusader. Thank you again for your time. It is helpful to understand how the conviction is thought of in an allegorical sense. My question is this: when a man is tried for an allegorical crime, what evidence is brought against him -- evidence of the literal crime, or evidence of the allegorical one? And what happened with oktar? Was true evidence of an allegorical crime brought, or false evidence of a literal one?

I do not think that the crusader mentality is a Christian one. Europeans have tried to control the minds and lands of their neighbors since long before the time of Jesus(pbuh). Jesus said that whoever is not against him is for him. The Quran calls Christians "people of the book" to be respected. Therefore Christians should see our Muslim friends as our brothers. Many Christians understand this, but it is crusaders who seek power to control and exploit our Muslim brothers -- not for their religion (which forbids it) but for power.

anti-crusader said...

friend Ungtss, you said:

----------
My question is this: when a man is tried for an allegorical crime, what evidence is brought against him -- evidence of the literal crime, or evidence of the allegorical one?
----------

i think the answer should be:
(fake) evidence of the literal crime
for the (true) evidence of allegorical crime.

think about this scenario:
one day some bad guys planted DRUG (=cocaine etc.) in the pocket of such a Religious Impostor who does every kind of oppression & evil
unjustly in the Name of God against Science & Humanity etc.
and then he was convicted and sent into prison for DRUG POSSESSION for some years because of this.
and he and his blind followers think that "he is an unjustly persecuted Religious Hero,"
but in fact in the eyes of God he had really possessed DRUG (= Crusader lies) in his pocket
and for this reason "he was a justly punished Religious Impostor" in the eyes of God.


i think that's more than enough
for this topic.
only God (Allah) can know the true nature of these kind of incidents, and He always acts in the most rightful manner on every occasion, at every time. we cannot know it for sure.
but i cited this example only to make the point that:
God (Allah) can sometimes work in "allegorically-concealed" Wondrous & Just Ways in this world.

----------
And what happened with oktar? Was true evidence of an allegorical crime brought, or false evidence of a literal one?
----------

i don't know, and honestly i am not so keen on knowing it. you can search it for yourself and make a conclusion for yourself.
you know my general viewpoint here already.

----------
Many Christians understand this, but it is crusaders who seek power to control and exploit our Muslim brothers -- not for their religion (which forbids it) but for power.
-----------

what a nice, concise, and truthful observation.
God (Allah) bless you.

ungtss said...

anticrusader: very interesting! Thank you again for your ideas. I have a few more questions. I wonder, because all is truly in God's control, would it not be more just to speak only the truth about a man's sins, and let God distribute justice as He sees fit? Why should we make false allegations to have a man punished, when God knows what every man does? Also, doesn't the Quran teach that it is wrong to bring false allegations? And how is the judge to bring a just punishment if he does not know what crime has truly been committed?

anti-crusader said...

friend Ungtss, you said:
----------
I wonder, because all is truly in God's control, would it not be more just to speak only the truth about a man's sins, and let God distribute justice as He sees fit?
----------

yes, absolutely true.
and God already always does that in real and sometimes in allegorical sense,
God is always just, He never punishes anyone for crimes they did not commit.

----------
Why should we make false allegations to have a man punished, when God knows what every man does?
----------

we should never make any false allegations against anyone, even if they are the most evil guys on earth. truth and only truth we shall speak each and every time. (4/135) otherwise, it would be a great sin on us.

the guys who will make the allegations --whether they are factually or allegorically true--are not us. only God can appoint them and use them whenever He wants so (10/66 & 48/7) against whomever He wants. (6/65 & 6/93)

so only in God (Allah) we should seek refuge, each and every time,
from all Evildoers, who fabricate lies in the Name of God and harm all humanity & religion & science based on those delusional crusades. (6/93) & (7/30 & 6/112-113 & 5/17)

explorer said...

to see the real Gnostic Christian Masters behind this pseudo-islamic servant,
and their "common" delusional ideology,
you can go to this web-site and carefully read their eccentric
"ANTI-REALITY" arguments first:

http://www.stargods.org/WhatIsReality.html

and you should also see then Musa-Moses brother's critical comments on this issue
at comments section: (May 16, 6:37) (May 17, 10:09)
at this site:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/04/07/harun-yahyas-islamic-creationist-book-pops-up-in-scotland/

to better understand the deep MESSIAH DAJJAL connection with this delusional CRUSADER ideology.

*******************

and to see the real Evangelical Christian Masters behind this pseudo-islamic servant,
and their "common" misleading ideology,
you can go to this web-site and carefully read their fanatic
ANTI-EVOLUTIONARY arguments first:

http://www.creationresearch.org/about_crs.htm

and you should also see then Musa-Moses brother's critical comments on this issue
at comments section: (May 16, 6:37) (May 17, 10:09)
at this site:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/04/07/harun-yahyas-islamic-creationist-book-pops-up-in-scotland/

to better understand the deep MESSIAH DAJJAL connection with this delusional CRUSADER ideology.

explorer said...

and to see the real Evangelical Christian Masters behind their
pseudo-islamic servant,
and their "common" provocative & deceptive ideology,
you can go to this web-site and carefully read their "pretentious"
ANTI-MASONIC tirades first:

http://bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm

and you should also see then "Evolutionary Creation" brother's critical comments on this issue, at comments section: (June 8, 9:48)
at this site:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/04/07/harun-yahyas-islamic-creationist-book-pops-up-in-scotland/

to better understand the deep MESSIAH DAJJAL connection with this deceptive & provocative CRUSADER ideology.

Awakening said...

I want to talk about here about the most critical issue of:

Why this MESSIAH DAJJAAL (= Anti Christ) ideology and movement
has been prophesied & defined as the "Most Dangerous Trap" in front of all the believers, worldwide, in the End Times,
in Gospel and Quran together. (Matthew 24/11 & 7/15, 22-23) (Quran 27/93 = 5/17 & 6/112-113 & 7/30 & 38/82-83)

One of the most important reasons behind this MESSIAH DAJJAAL ideology's "Exceptional Driving & Deceiving Power" over many
--uninformed or misinformed-- believers should be:

== MESSIAH DAJJAAL (= Anti Christ) ideology and army may think of or disguise themselves as:

"Great Religious Warriors & Heroes who are fighting against Paganism (= according to them: Atheism & Agnosticism & Materialism etc.)
in this critical Age, in the first place.
For this reason, to know what the real Paganism could be in the eyes of God (Allah),
and what could be the real Position of all atheists & agnostics & materialists etc. in the sight of God (Allah), in the first place,
and how we should perceive & treat & deal with each group of these people,
we should perhaps absolutely go and see here this critical piece of information first
given by "Evolutionary Creation" at (June 21, 7:28)
at the comments section of this site:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/04/07/harun-yahyas-islamic-creationist-book-pops-up-in-scotland/

so that we may better recognize this MESSIAH DAJJAALISM (= Real Paganism in the eyes of God-Allah)
and better protect ourselves against it,
in the first place, in this most critical Era.

==========

Because that all of its basic "Crooked Delusional Ideologies" of MESSIAH DAJJAALISM may initially be presented to us as:

"Great Religious Ideologies that are Defeating Materialism etc." in this critical Age, in the first place,
we should perhaps also absolutely go and see here this critical piece of information first
given by "Musa-Moses" at (May 17, 10:09)
at the comments section of this site:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/04/07/harun-yahyas-islamic-creationist-book-pops-up-in-scotland/

so that we may also better recognize this MESSIAH DAJJAALISM (= Real Satanic Delusionism etc. in the eyes of God-Allah) and better protect ourselves against it, in the first place, in this most critical Era.

==========

May God (Allah) protect each and every of us from these
--skillfully disguised-- "crooked & delusional" MESSIAH DAJJAAL ideologies, forever.

Stay within Peace & Salaam.

daniel said...

Ungtss, I just visited your blog on Yahya, and I am a journalist here in Turkey, so I've been interested in the issue a lot and I visited almost all trials of Yahya. The thing is... Judges could not accuse him of any crime in the hearings of the trial. When the attorneys asked judges to define the crime he committed, they stood in silence and did not answer. When the attorneys asked them according to which Turkish C. Code he's being tried, they wouldn't say a thing again. Now the case has been sent to the supreme court of appeals. Seems that the guy didn't commit a crime.

ungtss said...

Daniel:

Fascinating! Thank you for your response. I recently moved to Adana (unfortunately far from where the action is on the case) -- do you know of any newspapers or online journals that are covering it in more detail? Are you writing on it? I want more solid info but all I get from my friends and acquaintances down here is the same old story:

"He's one of those crazy creationists who believe things science has proven false -- he's a cult leader -- he captured a supermodel and held her captive" ... none of which have anything to do with what he was charged with.

But the responses above on this thread referring to the criminal charges as from a "heavenly" not "literal" perspective were fascinating. I wondering if the people driving this prosecution forward have a similar philosophy.

Do you have any good sources for more info?

daniel said...

About the supermodel stuff: It was proven by several courts that she was lying and he never met her. If you tell me exactly about what you wanna learn, I'll provide you some information. Most of the documents are in Turkish of course. But I can tell you partly. By the way, visit www.harunyahya.tv

daniel said...

A criminal case was opened against the defendants including Yahya for establishing a criminal organization, administering this organization and acting on behalf of the organization. LEGAL OPINION OF ACQUITTAL DATED 1 APRIL 2008 BY THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR ON THE BAV (SCIENCE RESEARCH FOUNDATION) CASE NO. 2007/339 HEARD AT ISTANBUL, 2ND CRIMINAL COURT OF 2ND INSTANCE was as follows: Other than the statements that defendants have given at police security without the presence of defense lawyers and which they have rejected due to claims that these were taken under torture. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE AGAINST THE DEFENDANTS in respect to all evidence gathered by our court.

This means that, in the 8 years of trial, not even one single evidence could be obtained against him and the other defendants. Final part of the legal opinion is like this:

“In this case, because crimes of establishing a criminal organization by Adnan Oktar and administering or acting on behalf of the criminal organization by other defendants is not plain on evidence, based on TCCP Article 223/2e, it is formally requested and deliberated that all defendants ARE SEPARATELY GIVEN ACQUITTAL from any alleged crimes.”

Anna said...

Daniel:

Thanks!

More specific questions: Were there any specific factual allegations underlying the allegations? That is to say, what specific acts (if any) did they allege he did that constituted a crime?

Also, do you have any specifics on what's really going on here? I understand he's managed to tick everybody off by both supporting the existence of Israel and opposing evolution. That's bound to make you a lot of enemies in a secular, Muslim country:).

Why is his PR so poor? He loses a lot of credibility with this "It's all the Masons who are out to get me!" stuff. Unless there's real reason to believe that's what's going on?

Does Turkey have no statute of limitations?

Thank you!!!

Anonymous said...

This is Daniel ...
Not a lot of people in the public can understand a legal procedure correctly. So most people are deceived by us, the media. The most intresting situation in this case for me and all the press has always been the lack of any evidence against SRF and Yahya. The SRF case was examined by 7 different court chambers including 1st State Security Court (DGM) and not even one evidence or document was found to prove the allegations in the indictment.

The indictment of BAV (Science Research Foundation) is based on statements taken under torture in the police security headquarters without the presence of attorney. According to Turkish Criminal Code 148/4, these statements are invalid and police duress has been proven by 7 different forensic medicine institutions.

Considering the invalidity of these statements and the non-existence of a single evidence that would confirm the allegations, State Security Court Number 3 and State Security Court Number 4 previously concluded that the case in question does not have elements that could be evaluated in the content of the Code 4422. 9 seperate courts, including the courts in question, verified this verdict. The 5th Chamber of the Supreme Court of Appeals, on the other hand, confirmed the verdict. In the light of this verdict, ‹stanbul 2nd Criminal Court of 2nd Instance issued the verdict of statute of limitations in the year 2005 for all defendants. Despite being legally obvious and definite, the 8th Chamber of the Supreme Court of Appeals reversed this verdict. In order to reverse the statute of limitations, it decided the case to be tried within the context of the Code 4422.

The only basis for the 8th Chamber of Supreme Court of Appeals to reverse this verdict are the fake statements signed by defendants under duress at the police security headquarters WITHOUT THE PRESENCE OF ATTORNEYS. During the hearing held on 29.02.2008, the Chairman of the Istanbul 2nd Criminal Court of 2nd Instance accepted the invalidity of the statements with the words, “The statements taken through forbidden methods can not be considered as evidence according to Code of Criminal Procedure 148.” However just one hearing later, it decided to adhere to the reversal decree taken by the 8th Chamber of Supreme Court of Appeals based solely on invalid documents.

In addition to this, the judges of the 8th Criminal Chamber of the Supreme Court of Appeals have leaked their ruling to the press 3 days before its official declaration and signature, and this has paved the way for an illegal slander campaign targeting the SF community by some media corporations.
The Public Prosecutor expressed his legal opinion about seperating the cases of individuals whose cases are about to face statute of limitations and those who have still 2 years for it and submitted his legal opinion about granting time for defenses. However, the Court Commission did not accept it.

daniel said...

When it comes to his PR, in fact it's not poor. He has over 150 interviews on the subject. The supreme class of the Turkish public know him very well. And the information is easily reachable in Turkish.

People want to hate him because he is a muslim and he thinks Israeli people should continue to live in their lands (without torturing muslims) and he revealed a secret mason name list of 500 upper class people, and he may have relationship with numerous very beautiful women and he is rich. We look for a reason to hate him. We can not find one and create some. That's the real story behind. I myself wanted to create some but then gave up on it. But I'm not a fan either.

Anonymous said...

Subject of Adnans alligations is a hot topic, however the biggest concern is the guys in his group. i genuinly feel sorry for the fella's cause they were fulled by an extremely intelligent person, who unfortunately uses his knowledge to manipulate human minds for personal gain.
A person who truly knows God, would never judge other religions for he would know that God is one for everyone. Secondly, he would never allow for his desiples to turn away from their families, thinking that Adnan is the only important person in their lives. there are many arguments to question his pure intent. His followers have become zombis, living in constant fear. In fear there is no God.
No judgement, because at the end of the day we all choose our own way. Just sad that brilliant minds are so handsomely manipulated.
Adnan managed to create a very strong group. In business they may never fail, cause when one falls the rest support. They are very strong together.
Guided by the constant need to capitalize for Allah, in that is their live purpose.
Feels like they buy their way to providence. I wonder how they will serve Allah, if, hypothetically speaking, world runs out of finance. Non of the profits served God by building business empires. Perhaps Harun Yahya would agree that the biggest gift of people who have God in their hearts, despite the religion, is their freedom.
Which unfortunately is lacking in the hearts of people in his group.

Mr. Oktar may laugh at people now, but the one who laughs last, laughs the best. Ego never wins over the truth.

"Whether you declair your convictions or not, he knows the secrets, and even more what is hidden" Quran, 20:07

On the other hand, must pay him a deep respect, any general will envy an army of such faithful and loyal followers. Great guys in his group.Great and confused.

Anonymous said...

Daniel,
i do agree with you. People always look for reasons to hate him. Only is there a need?
We accuse him of crimes, here and there but as i said in my comment before we all chose our own ways. He knows himself what he does right or wrong, and we are all witnessing only what is available. Even his own followers dont know the truth.
But he is a messiah? Maybe if we are so eager to know, he shouldn't refuse to answer a few questions himself. Messiahs are messengers, hence cannot serve only a selected group of people. Has anyone tried to get in touch?

ungtss said...

You all speak as if you know him and his group personally -- what views do they hold that are controversial, other than the obvious ones (pro-Israeli-homeland) and creationist? What else are they "confused" about?

Anonymous said...

In my personal opinion, even if Adnan is convicted, it wont change anything, because his group is way too strong. as long as they exist, they will function, and Adnan will keep on smiling even in jail.

So we can discuss all we want about righteousness of his actions, the question is "Would it change anything?".
Whereever he is he will be happy, he has built an empire for himself.

I guess noone of us is in power to stop anyone from doing business with them. There would be no Adnan when global values change.

There are people who have already made a great step towards it. http://www.lawoftime.org/

You ask what these people are confused about? I can only answer is that they do not own their own time or their own minds.

Anonymous said...

I congratulate our courts.
harun yahya is known for sexual pressure on young girls, use of kokain and being the head of an illegal organization, that is terrorizing his own sect man.

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Anthony North said...

Adnan Oktar is a messianic egotist that wants to pass himself off as a new prophet. As such he is a heretic to orthodox muslims. He, and his fellow cultists are manipulative criminals. If you need evidence of their duplicity read both sides of the arguments for and against Oktar. If your irony meter does not explode when you read the stupid mush coming from his cronies then you are the perfect candidate for his style of control.