tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post2421277686905412594..comments2024-03-09T04:25:13.906-05:00Comments on Irtiqa: A Report from the Islamic Astronomy ConferenceSalman Hameedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04327330113822656571noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-21833644601493805842010-06-10T19:46:27.434-04:002010-06-10T19:46:27.434-04:00"The Koran says the earth was made in six day..."The Koran says the earth was made in six days, but that's not the point."<br /><br />the arabic word used in Qur'an to say 'days' in these verses are 'yawm' or 'ayyamin.' Yawm is singular and ayyamin is plural. <br /><br />Yam means a day. But it also means a period of time. It can be anything from a moment to an epoch of time. <br /><br />So what is meant by 'six days' CANNOT be taken to literally mean six calendar days even according to a literal translation of Qur'an. <br /><br />Thank you for reading too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-14098215519290997792010-06-10T19:25:48.154-04:002010-06-10T19:25:48.154-04:00"IF, only IF, Einstein was made aware of this..."IF, only IF, Einstein was made aware of this verse from Qur'an, do you think he would have still introduced the 'cosmological constant?'"<br /><br />I'm pretty sure he would not have done anything differently. The thought that goes into developing a theory like Einstein's is so far beyond the complexity of nebulous verbal statements in scriptures that they offer essentially no help. <br /><br />"Suppose it was an Islamic scientist who was working to figure out whether the universe is expanding, or steady, do you think he would have stood by the steady state theory even though his equations show it is expanding? I am sure he would not!"<br /><br />Again, I don't think the religion of the scientist makes any difference. All you need is a method to determine whether the universe is expanding or not, and then you take some measurements. I might be misunderstanding your question.<br /><br />"All life, the Qur'an says, was created from water. We have still not discovered this fact. But we cannot ignore it either."<br /><br />Water is one of the basic ingredients of life. This is a well-known fact, and I do not think anyone ignores or denies it. <br /><br />"But I am sure the Qur'an does not give a figure for the age of the Earth."<br /><br />The Koran says the earth was made in six days, but that's not the point. I am merely trying to demonstrate the difficulty in nailing anything down with scripture.<br /><br />Thank you for reading.emrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00931870864104747021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-75107084457231652412010-06-10T17:44:11.058-04:002010-06-10T17:44:11.058-04:00@ Nidhal
"Looks like there's some serio...@ Nidhal <br /><br />"Looks like there's some serious interest in the question of "Islamic Science" " <br /><br />Yes, i would love to know more. <br /><br /><br />@ Sanaa <br /><br />"I started explaining the meaning of this to people around me, we need to start working in spreading these concepts, vocabulary, and terms related to this among as many people as we know."<br /><br />Absolutely. If we (Muslims) do not do it, who else will do it? <br /><br /><br />@ emre <br /><br />"If the Big Bang theory had not been developed, who would guess that that verse referred to the Big Bang?" <br /><br />This is the problem. <br />Let me ask you something. <br />IF, only IF, Einstein was made aware of this verse from Qur'an, do you think he would have still introduced the 'cosmological constant?' Even if would, I think his approach would have been different. You know, Einstein's equations DID calculate that the universe is expanding. BUT he stood with the view prevalent in his time by introducing a 'constant.' He later told that this was his biggest blunder. <br /><br />The Qur'an is not a science text book. It is a book of 'signs' as they say. So you cannot expect everything to be given in the Qur'an as plain and simple. It is more subtle than that. This is why you say the verse I quoted is "characteristically vague." <br /><br />If everything is given in Qur'an, when do we get a chance to use our intelligence? God expects us to use our intelligence to unravel the mysteries of the universe. <br /><br />Let me also put what I said about Einstein differently. <br />Suppose it was an Islamic scientist who was working to figure out whether the universe is expanding, or steady, do you think he would have stood by the steady state theory even though his equations show it is expanding? I am sure he would not! <br /><br />All life, the Qur'an says, was created from water. We have still not discovered this fact. But we cannot ignore it either. <br /><br />This why we need "Islamic Science." There is much science to explore from what is given in Islam. If the Muslims form the majority of top level scientists today (like we used to have several hundred years ago,) we would have done so much that this religion cannot be misunderstood by so many. <br /><br />It saddens me that for some in the West, there is nothing good about Islam. It is a religion of suicide bombers. It saddens me more that this is the image people try hard to fix on Islam and bury everything else about this religion. <br /><br />"For example, when scripture says the Earth is so-and-so years old, are we supposed to take it literally?"<br /><br />I am guessing you are talking of the claims of young Earth creationists. I have not read the Bible or Torah sufficiently enough to comment on what is given on these books. <br /><br />But I am sure the Qur'an does not give a figure for the age of the Earth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-43253410284291003872010-06-10T13:48:18.413-04:002010-06-10T13:48:18.413-04:00That verse you quoted from the Koran in support of...That verse you quoted from the Koran in support of the Big Bang theory is characteristically vague; it has no scientific value. If the Big Bang theory had not been developed, who would guess that that verse referred to the Big Bang?<br /><br />Once a scientific theory has been propounded, it's easy to go back to your holy books and try to find a supporting statement. I do not see how you can start from the nebulous statements in scripture and arrive at a quantifiable scientific theory.<br /><br />"If you contemplate a bit, scripture carries a lot of meaning."<br /><br />Yes, but this is not the blessing it might seem. The fact that scriptural statements can be interpreted in many ways reduces their accuracy to the point of uselessness. For example, when scripture says the Earth is so-and-so years old, are we supposed to take it literally? Suppose we do. Then we determine through alternative scientific methods that the literal interpretation can't be right, so unless we're fanatics we revise our interpretation to something more hazy...emrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00931870864104747021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-53740024847484188312010-06-10T04:39:25.737-04:002010-06-10T04:39:25.737-04:00Thank you very much for this report about our last...Thank you very much for this report about our last great conference.<br />Yes it was such a successful meeting.<br />I started believing of having our Islamic calender and actually I started explaining the meaning of this to people around me, we need to start working in spreading these concepts, vocabulary, and terms related to this among as many people as we know.<br />Good luck Dear Nidhal, and hope for coming great meetings.Sanaa Abdonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-90176629246395130692010-06-10T00:59:56.767-04:002010-06-10T00:59:56.767-04:00Thanks to all, and sorry for my late replies; I ha...Thanks to all, and sorry for my late replies; I have been on travel and just got back (13 hours of flight, nonstop, and 8 hours of time-zone difference)!<br /><br />Looks like there's some serious interest in the question of "Islamic Science", and since the whole discussion depends strongly on what is meant by "Islamic Science", it can't be addressed in one comment at the bottom of a blog piece.<br /><br />I promise to thus address it more fully in a future piece (in less than 1000 words, though; this is a blog after all, not a review journal)...Nidhal Guessoumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12638764091228065424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-31395808331290847702010-06-10T00:15:46.578-04:002010-06-10T00:15:46.578-04:00"Scientists do not accept things on faith, so..."Scientists do not accept things on faith, so claims in scripture carry no weight." <br /><br />I agree with the first part.<br />I disagree that 'claims in scripture carry no weight.' <br /><br />About quantum science and cosmology ... <br />I am not qualified to go on an elaboration. I am not an astronomer nor am I an Islamic Religious Scholar. <br /><br />But I think I do understand this verse from Qur'an. What it says suffices to say the Qur'an talks of both. <br /><br />"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" The Qur'an 021:030 <br /><br />The Big Bang Theory tells us that the universe was a singularity at one point of time. <br /><br />But remember, we have not figured out what the origin of life was like. Nor do we have any idea of the role quantum relations might have played in it. <br /><br />I have studied enough biology to believe that the mystery of origin of life has very much to do with quantum science of H2O. <br /><br />It is easy to dismiss what is there in scripture. But this is only after a superficial read. If you contemplate a bit, scripture carries a lot of meaning. <br /><br />I am a person who is curious about many things. I posted a verse from Qur'an sometime ago, hoping that it carries some meaning to astronomers. But, despite this blog being maintained by 2 astronomers, no one has replied to it. Not that I am complaining, but that I am a bit disappointed for I was curious to know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-14704830479917449712010-06-09T18:58:43.591-04:002010-06-09T18:58:43.591-04:00Egyptology does have American and British equivale...Egyptology does have American and British equivalent; American Studies, and British Studies, respectively. But your analogy is inappropriate because these fields are by definition tied to one society, whereas science is practiced the same way the world over: hypotheses are proposed, and confirmed or refuted.<br /><br />Scientists do not accept things on faith, so claims in scripture carry no weight. Still, I'm curious what you think the Koran has to say on cosmology or "quantum science". Could you go into details?emrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00931870864104747021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-37336984114235505032010-06-09T18:28:39.572-04:002010-06-09T18:28:39.572-04:00Hi emre,
Thanks for your comment.
I agree scien...Hi emre,<br /><br />Thanks for your comment. <br /><br />I agree scientific methods are independent of religion. But, Islam has a distinct touch on many aspects of life, including science. So talking of Islamic Science is, in my mind, not a dishonour to science at all. <br /><br />If I say Islamic architecture, you will have a particular image in your mind. Similarly, if I say Islamic poetry, or Islamic design, it will be the same. <br /><br />We may or may not have a counterpart to these aspects in other religions. But that does not mean the Islamic angle or the Islamic touch to these aspects are any less. <br /><br />We do not have USA-ology, or UK-ology or Saudi Arabiology or Pakistanology. But we do have Egyptology as a university subject taught in many international universities. <br /><br />What I mean by this is that not every country have a subject specific to them taught in an international university. But where it is relevant, it is there. <br /><br />I am not saying that Egyptology is specific to Islam, but that it is specific to Egypt. <br /><br />Sciences like astronomy for instance matters more to no other religion. Many verses of the Qur'an talks of science. The range is between quantum science and cosmology. What more can you expect to rightfully deserve recognition? <br /><br />So, I think "Islamic Science" must be recognised as such. <br /><br />Islam has NEVER been a hindrance to gaining knowledge nor to science. This is in contrast to what happened during the Dark Ages. <br /><br />Islamic Science is a distinctive entity. We might as well appreciate and acknowledge it rather than try to bury it with history. <br /><br />It saddens me when people try to discredit what deserves praise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-426893816458512602010-06-09T14:03:31.238-04:002010-06-09T14:03:31.238-04:00The point is that the scientific method is indepen...The point is that the scientific method is independent of the religion of the scientists practicing it, thus it is absurd to speak of Islamic science.<br /><br />It's amazing how Islam seeks to pervade every aspect of life, warranted or not.emrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00931870864104747021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-73905633061046201112010-06-09T03:42:44.779-04:002010-06-09T03:42:44.779-04:00What is Islamic Science?
"The latter concep...What is Islamic Science? <br /><br />"The latter concept has largely been abandoned ... " <br /><br />May be I am not getting what you are saying. Care to elaborate please? <br /><br />You seem to be saying that a term or a phrase is valid only if they are used by the West. Am I right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-50317656561693795072010-06-08T05:22:22.164-04:002010-06-08T05:22:22.164-04:00Alham-Du-Lillah
Thanks for share, really helpful....Alham-Du-Lillah<br /><br />Thanks for share, really helpful. Also, please take a look at my blog <br />www.religionislamconcepts.muslimblogs.com <br />Allah help us both to spread the message of Islam.manihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08863341705030384983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-60049071823171984432010-06-08T04:57:56.241-04:002010-06-08T04:57:56.241-04:00Thanks, emre, but that's exactly why I made su...Thanks, emre, but that's exactly why I made sure I'd clear up the meaning and usage of "Islamic Astronomy" at the start of my report piece. This is totally different from the "Islamic Science" idea, which indeed S. H. Nasr and others proposed and debated in the eighties. The latter concept has largely been abandoned, so I don't think I need to discuss it in any detail, but it's not the case for "Islamic Astronomy", which as I've pointed out, is often used by western experts in that field.<br /><br />If there is a need to further expound on that issue, I will gladly do.Nidhal Guessoumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12638764091228065424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38085367.post-89405658565027189582010-06-07T20:29:05.223-04:002010-06-07T20:29:05.223-04:00I get incensed whenever I hear people speak of the...I get incensed whenever I hear people speak of the need to develop an "Islamic science" to catch up with the West! I vaguely remember the name Seyyed Hossein Nasr mentioned in this context.<br /><br />Thank you relating the highlights of the conference.emrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00931870864104747021noreply@blogger.com